Horde 3.0 - Predictability of Waves

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Hey all, 
 
Introduction 
 
The reason why I'm making this thread is because as a Horde fanatic (I know I'm love MP too but I like Horde just as much), as we all well know in Gears 4, Horde 3.0 is too predictable of what is going to spawn at X wave. There is no randomisation in the waves whatsoever to make it challenging and fun to play. We all like to every now and then play Horde to chill and have fun or if you're a dedicated Horde player, play for higher stakes such as playing on Insane. But as for all of us, we want to expected the unexpected, not flat-out knowing "It's Shepherds and Trackers" this wave. 
 
 
Back in Gears 3, there is no set pattern or sequence of what exactly will spawn, which was what I've liked about Gears 3 Horde. On the first wave of Gears 3 Horde It can be a few Wretches and Tickers or Drones with Wretches or even it's Lambent enemies. There's that many combinations of what can spawn, players won't know for definite what is coming. I'm sure on some 9th and 10th waves of Horde in Gears 3, a random Ticker might be there, which is exactly what Horde needs to be; enemies you'll never expect on certain waves. 
 
 
This is a huge step backwards from what Horde was in Gears 3 and how it is in Gears 4. I know there isn't a massive variety of enemies in Gears 4 but that doesn't mean every wave can be randomised. Not only that, when Lambent and Locust enemies spawned together, they would occasionally fight each other. Why can't Deebees and Swarm do this as did at the start of Act 5 in the Campaign? Little twists like this make Horde exciting to watch as you can sit in cover and just let them kill each other. 
 
I know all the enemies that spawn on each wave by heart and what is added on each further wave, I'll explain below. 
 
Note: To help, I've listed the newer enemies at the start of each wave so you know exactly which enemies are added. 
 
 
 
Standard Horde 
 
 
Waves 1, 11, 21, 31 & 41 
 
- Shepherds, Shock Trackers 
 
Waves 2, 12, 22, 32 & 42 
 
- DR-1 Protectors, Shepherds, Shock Trackers 
 
Waves 3, 13. 23, 33 & 43 
 
- Sentinels, Deadeyes, DR-1 Protectors, Shepherds, Shock Trackers 
 
Waves 4, 14, 24, 34 & 44 
 
- Juvies, Sentinels, Deadeyes, DR-1 Protectors, Shepherds, Shock Trackers 
 
Waves 5, 15, 25, 35 & 45 
 
- Swarm Elite Drones, Guardians, Juvies, Deadeyes, DR-1 Protectors, Shock Trackers 
 
Waves 6, 16, 26, 36 & 46 
 
- Scion Boomshots, Swarm Elite Drones, Guardians, Juvies, Deadeyes, DR-1 Protectors, Shock Trackers 
 
Waves 7, 17, 27, 37 & 47 
 
- Pouncers, Scion Buzzkills, Swarm Drones, Scion Boomshots, Swarm Elite Drones, Juvies, DR-1 Protectors 
 
Waves 8, 18, 28, 38 & 48 
 
- Swarm Hunters, Swarm Grenadiers, Scion Mulchers, Scion Buzzkills, Pouncers, Swarm Drones, Scion Boomshots, Juvies, DR-1 Protectors 
 
Waves 9, 19, 29, 39 & 49 
 
- Scion Dropshots, Scion Mulchers, Swarm Hunters, Swarm Grenadiers, Scion Buzzkills, Swarm Drones 
 
Waves 10, 20, 30, 40 & 50 
 
- Bosses (Carrier, Snatcher, Swarmak or Kestrel), Scion Dropshots, Scion Mulchers, Swarm Hunters, Swarm Grenadiers, Scion Buzzkills, Swarm Drones 
 
 
 
Feral Horde 
 
<color: rgb(255, 0, 0)>Waves: 1, 11, 21, 31 & 41</color: rgb(255, 0, 0)> 
 
- DR-1 Protectors, Frag Trackers, Juvies 
 
<color: rgb(255, 0, 0)>Waves: 2-5, 12-15, 22-25, 32-35 & 42-45</color: rgb(255, 0, 0)> 
 
- Savage Grenadiers, DR-1 Protectors, Frag Trackers, Juvies 
 
Waves: 6-9, 16-19, 26-29, 36-39 & 46-49 
 
- Scion Dropshots, Pouncers, Sentinels, Savage Grenadiers, Juvies 
 
Waves: 10, 20, 30, 40 & 50 
 
- Bosses (Carrier or Snatcher), Scion Dropshots, Pouncers, Sentinels, Savage Grenadiers, Juvies 
 
---------------------------------- 
 
<color: rgb(255, 153, 0)>Enemies that are in the Gears of War 4 Campaign but not Horde</color: rgb(255, 153, 0)> 
 
- Frag Trackers 
- Heavies (DR-1 Protectors armed with Trishots/Rocket Salvos 
- Swarm Snipers 
- UIR Soldiers 
- Locust 
- Condors 
 
 
 
<color: rgb(255, 153, 0)>Enemies from past Horde Modes</color: rgb(255, 153, 0)> 
 
- Wild Tickers 
- Tickers 
- Wretches 
- Drones 
- Grenadiers 
- Grenadier Elites 
- Flame Grenadiers 
- Snipers 
- Bolters 
- Cyclops 
- Therons 
- Butchers 
- Flame Boomers 
- Boomers 
- Grinders 
- Maulers 
- Bloodmounts 
- Serapedes 
- Kantus 
- Armoured Kantus 
- Sires 
- Ragers 
- Savage Drones 
- Savage Therons 
- Polyps 
- Formers 
- Lambent Wretches 
- Lambent Drones 
- Lambent Grenadiers 
- Lambent Drudges 
 
 
 
Bosses in Gears of War 3 
 
- Berserkers 
- Brumaks 
- Gunkers 
- Lambent Berserkers 
- Reavers 
- Savage Corpsers 
 
---------------------------------- 
 
Also I like to know why Frag Trackers aren't in Horde. They are the only enemies in the robotics list of enemies that don't make an appearance in Horde. Is it because they are OP in Horde or some other reason? Either way, they should be in Horde because the more enemies there are, the more randomised the waves will be. Same can be said for UIR soldiers too. Like the Swarm, there's many combinations of the weapons UIR soldiers can carry in Horde. Also as I mentioned earlier, UIR soldiers and Swarm could spawn on one wave but they're shooting each other as well as you. 
 
 
Maybe in the later waves of Horde say 30, two Bosses could spawn at once to not only add variety but a heck of a challenge too. I'm sure even the most experienced players would have a hard time dealing with say a Swarmak and a Snatcher or a Kestrel and a Swarmak. Or even better, watching a Kestrel shooting at a Swarmak as well them shooting at you. It's adjustments to Horde like this will improve it greatly in terms of playability and what's more fun watching a gargantuan battle between a helicopter and a dinosaur? 
 
 
 
<color: rgb(255, 153, 0)>Suggestions to Improving Horde</color: rgb(255, 153, 0)> 
 
- Wind Flare Boss Wave - Exact same as wave 9 enemies, but wind flare rolls in and does its thing (no lightning strikes, just wind and visibility). - Credit to DeathDealer160  
 
- Swarm Nest Boss Wave - Swarm nests appear on the map (3 to 4 nests total) and spawn additional enemies on top of the normal wave 10 amount. The nests transform juvies and if destroyed via explosives a Scion spawns instantly somewhere on the map. - Credit to DeathDealer160 
 
- Epic Reaper Secret Wave: Requirements needed - Complete all Bonus Objectives, No deaths from anyone in the team throughout Waves 1 - 50, Insane Mode only. 
 
--- When on 50 wave, any map turn into dark cloud with wild lightning lot and wind. Epic Reaper will appear as special secret Boss and he will resurrect the Locust as zombies and COGs will attacks players.  
--- If players beat Epic Reaper and clean 50 wave. Epic Reaper will give you unlock Skin of Emblem, weapons and characters. (cannot craft card)  
--- If all players dead and fail wave, Epic Reaper will say "YOU NOT WORTH FIGHT AGAINST ME" then disappear into fade back to normal map and boss appear. - Credits to SPICYDEAFSHARK 
 
Other Horde 3.0 Threads 
 
Horde 3.0 - Extensive Feedback & Stop Sweeping Ground Clean of Weapons After Failed Waves 
Horde 3.0 - Lobbies, Map Vote and Competitive Playlist Requests 
Tac-Com's Horde Guides 
The Horder' Bible - What You Must Know 
 
---------------------------------- 
 
 
 
Conclusion 
 
So in light of all this, it's clear Horde has to be improved to get it back where it used to be. It doesn't need set waves when particular enemies spawn, it needs to all be randomised for a better and exciting experience. Can we something for Horde hopefully for TU4? Or maybe a following update behind TU3 if sooner? Horde has been like this for 3 months and I think it's high time it needs some fixes. 
 
 
Post your thoughts to what you reckon can be changed in Horde. I'll love to hear what everyone's take on how it is currently to you. :) 
 
#LetsMakeHordeGreatAgain
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I agree 100% While I would love to see some additional enemies, finding a way to randomize the enemy spawns a little more would be awesome. I get ramping up the difficulty to the boss wave, but I feel like that could still be done without the exact same formula
"Maybe in the later waves of Horde say 30, Two Bosses could spawn at once to not only add variety but a heck of a challenge too. " 
-> 100 % right ! 
 
Very good job.
I agree 100% While I would love to see some additional enemies, finding a way to randomize the enemy spawns a little more would be awesome. I get ramping up the difficulty to the boss wave, but I feel like that could still be done without the exact same formula
If Epic did it on Unreal Engine 3 for Gears 3, surely TC can do it with Unreal Engine 4 on Gears 4. There is no excuse to not do it. It's all there, the community just needs to voice it out much more.
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I agree.  
 
There needs to be more enemies and there needs to be some sort of major overhaul to the class system. You are severely limited when having to choose a class in weapons. Sure, when you're the scout you can grab an Overkill on Wave 2, but why not give the Scout the ability to spawn with the Overkill instead of the gnasher? Why force the soldier to start with a Lancer? Actually, why does the soldier even need a gnasher as a backup weapon?  
 
As a level 10 heavy, you have to start with the boomshot. With fully upgraded class skills, you get 100% increased damage with it, plus 50% damage to an enemy if you spot that enemy. The boomshot destroys everything. The problem is I favor the torque bow, but the thing is so wimpy (even with a level 10 heavy with maxed out class skills) that there is no reason to use it instead of the boomshot. And I've also tried to use both at the same time, but if you do that you will end up downing yourself when you get bullrushed while playing with a team of people that are not that good.  
 
I rambled, but maybe somewhere in there is something that remotely resembles a point.
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Good post OP. I find it funny that most of the forum negativity is about the randomisation of cosmetics in a pack and nothing is fixed or certain in a pack. Whereas here we have a thread saying the exact opposite. The waves are fixed and there is no randomisation. Only way u going to get randomisation in horde is if people start exploiting it somehow and then it's a P1 issue to TC and they will fix it straight away.
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Good post OP. I have been banging on about the issues you mention, since I completed my first match of 3.0 
 
It is inferior to 2.0 in so many ways as to be an insult. I play ALOT of Horde and have done since Gears 2. Without a doubt this Horde is the weakest. 
 
As you mention the lack of any real spontaneity in waves coupled with the awful lack of swarm is MIND BLOWING. How could they get Horde so wrong. Only 4 unique bosses. I would love someone at TC to explain the thinking behind that. 
 
I mention months back that it would be better if we got 2 different bosses on Boss waves, rather than 2 or 3 of the same one...How cheap is that! 
 
We need Locusts added in asap and join in progress. Then as you say mix things up, why not make us defend a different area on the map for a wave now and again ? Mass Effect 3's version of Horde has some good ideas along those lines. More unique voice lines for COGS and Swarm. Weather FON style like in Horde 2.0. Change the time of day as we play through the waves ? 
 
ATMOSPHERE is key here. 
 
 
 
Judgements Survival is 100 times better than Horde 3.0
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Duffman GB wrote:
Good post OP. I have been banging on about the issues you mention, since I completed my first match of 3.0  
 
It is inferior to 2.0 in so many ways as to be an insult. I play ALOT of Horde and have done since Gears 2. Without a doubt this Horde is the weakest.  
 
As you mention the lack of any real spontaneity in waves coupled with the awful lack of swarm is MIND BLOWING. How could they get Horde so wrong. Only 4 unique bosses. I would love someone at TC to explain the thinking behind that.  
 
I mention months back that it would be better if we got 2 different bosses on Boss waves, rather than 2 or 3 of the same one...How cheap is that!  
 
We need Locusts added in asap and join in progress. Then as you say mix things up, why not make us defend a different area on the map for a wave now and again ? Mass Effect 3's version of Horde has some good ideas along those lines. More unique voice lines for COGS and Swarm. Weather FON style like in Horde 2.0. Change the time of day as we play through the waves ?  
 
ATMOSPHERE is key here.  
 
 
 
Judgements Survival is 100 times better than Horde 3.0
Yep I do agree Survival is better than this. Though it was only 10 waves and on 4 maps and with a limited of enemies, least it was DIFFERENT every game you played. Plus, it was fun switching between classes and blasting away with Cole's Booshka or with Baird's Sentry. :)
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Spot on m8. I've been saying this since launch, Horde needs a revamp.
Agreed 100%. Horde 3.0 is a getting too repetitive and predictable. Randomization of enemies, fighting multiple bosses simultaneously and different race enemies fighting each other are all great ideas.
I very greatly support this! Has been an ongoing discussion since the beginning, more enemy variety and randomization would make the experience a lot more fun.
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That's it! Keep on racking those likes in! Let's get this out as much as we possibly can! The more, the merrier! #RandomiseHorde :)
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I do think there need to be more enemies from campaign in Horde. DB1's with Trishot, Frag Trackers, Swarm Snipers, etc. should all be there.
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I do think there need to be more enemies from campaign in Horde. DB1's with Trishot, Frag Trackers, Swarm Snipers, etc. should all be there.
Forgot the DR-1 Heavies and Swarm Snipers. I really should do a list of missing enemies that is in the Campaign but not in Horde. 
 
Cheers for the reminder.
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My Horde 3.0 Thread ~ Clubs Thread ~ Packs Thread  
it would take them months to redesign horde witch TC wouldent do. these are not tweaks more massive overhauls it could be done but MS is throwing💵 at TC to focus on esports
Definitely agree, GoW2 horde was really predictable so they changed it for GoW3 and it was perfect
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Giving this a like and a comment because I have been saying this since the beginning and as someone who is only playing horde for the achieves I feel sorry for those players who are PvE focused because while you can say that Horde 3.0 took some steps forward with the moveable fortitfications and the class system they definitely also took giant leaps backwards with the lacking enemy variety, wave variety being set
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Yeah that´s what i was thinking too, Horde 3.0 still fun, but it is more predictable than horde 2.0 in many ways.
I just feel in terms of enemy content that this Horde mode was a bit rushed. Like, I wouldn't have minded waiting another couple of months for a mode that is utterly fantastic, rather than getting an alright mode with the potential to go further, then TC are bending backwards and putting more on their plates to fix it post-launch. 
 
I cannot understand why, OP, the enemy spawning system is as easy to guess as they are. I remember back in Gears 3 the enemies that came along generally had a theme, but from time to time was generally random, almost. Variety is very low. 
 
I think that this mode is in need of more bosses, most of all. There are 4 bosses in Horde, that means you have to beat 1 boss multiple times on the boss wave to complete the whole 50 waves.
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