Kill Trades - Feedback Thread **UPDATE Jan 11**

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**UPDATE 1/11/2018** 
We hear the feedback on Kill Trading and are continuing to evaluate the system in Gears 4. 
 
In an online environment, Kill Trading is meant to provide equal conditions by allowing a tiny amount of time to check for kill shots from both players at close range. This number is in the double digit milliseconds. 
 
This system compensates for travel time over the internet to ensure the first shot that gets to the server isn't automatically considered the winner. Basically, we're trying to avoid the person with the fastest internet winning 1v1 battles if both players fire at essentially the same time. If a killing shot does not return from the 'already dead' player within this window, no trade will occur. 
 
While Kill Trading can be fustrating, we have seen a reduction in reports of situations where you landed a killing shot and didn't get awarded a kill. 
 
With all that said, we are continuing to listen and evaluating all options. A server-side change launches with this Update that essentially reduces the Kill Trade window to zero (trades will only happen if both shots arrive at the same server tick) for Competitive playlists as a test case. We'll continue to monitor feedback to this latest change. 
 
**UPDATE 12/19/2017** 
As of 10am PT today, we have made further significant reductions to the Kill Trading window based on in-game telemetry and player feedback. Try these new settings out over the weekend and let us know how they feel. 
 
As a reminder, the more specific and relevant your feedback on the tuning of our Kill Trade system and how it feels after this change the more helpful it is. Please help us out by keeping comments as on topic as possible so you can help shape the final tuning. 
--- 
 
We recently fixed a couple of bugs in Gears of War 4 that caused inconsistencies in our Kill Trading system. 
 
Kill trades happen when both users land a killing blow on their local console (client) which tells the server they have killed the enemy. Once the first client's killing shot is received by the server, it waits for 250ms to make sure the other user did not also land a killing blow at the same time (accounting for network latency). This system exists to make sure the user with the best ping isn't the automatic winner. 
 
Since we released this bug fix, we have been listening to the community response and have shortened our window for this system drastically in Ranked Modes. 
 
We're looking for feedback in this thread about how often Kill Trades seem to occur with this new shortened window, as well as how the game 'feels' overall with regards to when you do and do not trade. 
 
Thanks for your valuable feedback! 
 
TC
Senior Community Manager for Gears of War at The Coalition  
 
Follow Gears of War on Twitter and Facebook for all the latest on Gears  
Follow The Coalition on Twitter and Facebook for updates direct from the studio.  
You can follow me on Twitter - @OctusTC
I will try it out this week
ill report ASAP as i have low ping and tell my bro about this

MIKE HAWK in the epic games forums

 

Myittle pony = fluttershy + Rarity

 

Not really posting as there's nothing to discuss , after gears UE that'll change

IMO it would be better to decrease waiting time ... 150 or 100 ms maybe ...
"This system exists to make sure the user with the best ping isn't the automatic winner. " 
 
 
 
 
so im being bent over and shafted for having good internet. 
 
and bullcrap does it wait 250ms its more like 5ms 
 
I find it hard to believe youve only just noticed this needed fixig a year AFTER release. 
 
Its more likely that the population drop off has been so rastic that those remaining are in player pools so far from eachother youve had to change it to accomodate the laggier the matches are going to become. 
 
I end up with around 1/2 of my kills being trades now and it takes away any sense of skill gap or being able to out bounce or out play people because now they have a chance that they simply shoudnt have if i get the shot first.  
 
Even if my ping is better which its usually 24-28 on average. My matches feel sticky and clunky and everyone has a higher ping than me and yet they seem to walk around like host. 
 
 
but then tonight i played a match where everyonenhad pings over 150ms my self included and it was the most consistent the shotgun and damage rates had ever been. despite abbit of lag between shots i feel like i PURPOSELY have to make my ping worse now to compete because youve catered to the high ping players and basically made it so they their hand held and promoting zero reason to fix their conections. 
 
 
Why is it fair that im hardwired in at 24 ping to be absolutely ran through by a 60-70 wifi pcket loss scrub? 
 
 
im baffled at how low ping players are the ones that get screwed.
its now the feedback place for this, but still id like to have TC attention on this. 
 
https://gearsofwar.com/en-us/forums/e9b54fc61eb74ad783d533ca502b0132/threads/care-this-game-can-dmg-ur-windows-os-n-maybe-ur-pc/92d267e3-f532-4f43-9299-b2bc3b321102/posts

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Samantha Byrne <3
it feels like im host good stuff tc .

MIKE HAWK in the epic games forums

 

Myittle pony = fluttershy + Rarity

 

Not really posting as there's nothing to discuss , after gears UE that'll change

everything seeems to gib faster . it feels like the game is instant between shooting a down and seeing it die. i didnt get updated although I was updating

MIKE HAWK in the epic games forums

 

Myittle pony = fluttershy + Rarity

 

Not really posting as there's nothing to discuss , after gears UE that'll change

i only play escalation and i'm no longer getting 10 updates per match 
 
this is working for the better.. the updates i did have looked fair..  
 
i'm also happy to see that it looks like people coming out of roadie are getting a shot off  
 
but i have to agree with the above comments about better internet 
 
a lot of us go out of our way to pay for premium internet, specifically for gaming, buy better controllers and monitors, etc, so we can beat our competition 
 
for y'all to say you're still gonna reward the guy using mcdonald's free wifi isn't right  
 
only if the ping is similar, should the update occur  
 
i have a friend who uses his boost mobile phone as a hotspot in order to game.. he should be eaten alive 
 
give him incentive to purchase internet, rather than encouraging him to keep his cell phone hotspot  
o Ventus wrote:
some third-world Kenyan internet, then that's their problem
that's racists lol
Excellent, looking forward to trying this out.
Skorge is now in Gears of War 4 Multiplayer! Thank you TC!  
 
"These pitterful creatures cannot hope to stop us"
Honestly, people whinging about having low ping and getting trades off of people with slightly higher ping need to grow up. If you have a ping of 30 and are trading with someone over 100, sure, get angry. But getting angry about trading with someone with 60 ping. Really? Grow up. You people are so entitled, saying “they should go out and buy better internet.” Not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to afford $120-150 a month for premium internet. And some people live in parts of the world that don’t have great internet access. Should these people just stop gaming altogether because they have 70 ping and won’t ever kill someone with better ping? This game is dead enough without more people quitting the game because they have slightly higher ping and can never kill someone with lower ping than them. I too hate trading when I feel like I got the shot off first. But it’s not like TC give the other player 10 seconds to go for the trade. It’s 250ms. Get over it
So, is 250ms before or after the fix for Ranked? 
 
Haven't test it yet properly, TDM matches matchmaking on EU server for me were from superlaggy to megalaggy having players in lobby with 150-200 ping while mine stayed at 5-20...it's really hard to notice any improvements. It was like all players using full gnasher clip shooting blanks at each other before quitting one by one... 
 
Edit: it's actually the same with <100 all in lobby :/
Aye aye go make me a sandwich..
I've been playing some games and improving but it's still happening in situations that should not happen
It’s definitely still too large of a window,almost as if nothing had changed. Last night i was still updating a lot and in situations that shouldn’t have awarded a kill to one of us, either me or the enemy 
 
i has teammates that are not on the forums say: 
“Tc has got to fix this. It’s near every encounter ends in a trade” 
 
i hope you tighten the update window by at least another 50%
Biggest problems with Gears right now  
- horde map voting  
- afk/quitting players  
- $RNG
xHCx Jdo wrote:
"This system exists to make sure the user with the best ping isn't the automatic winner. "  
 
 
 
 
so im being bent over and shafted for having good internet.  
 
and bullcrap does it wait 250ms its more like 5ms  
 
I find it hard to believe youve only just noticed this needed fixig a year AFTER release.  
 
Its more likely that the population drop off has been so rastic that those remaining are in player pools so far from eachother youve had to change it to accomodate the laggier the matches are going to become.  
 
I end up with around 1/2 of my kills being trades now and it takes away any sense of skill gap or being able to out bounce or out play people because now they have a chance that they simply shoudnt have if i get the shot first.  
 
Even if my ping is better which its usually 24-28 on average. My matches feel sticky and clunky and everyone has a higher ping than me and yet they seem to walk around like host.  
 
 
but then tonight i played a match where everyonenhad pings over 150ms my self included and it was the most consistent the shotgun and damage rates had ever been. despite abbit of lag between shots i feel like i PURPOSELY have to make my ping worse now to compete because youve catered to the high ping players and basically made it so they their hand held and promoting zero reason to fix their conections.  
 
 
Why is it fair that im hardwired in at 24 ping to be absolutely ran through by a 60-70 wifi pcket loss scrub?  
 
 
im baffled at how low ping players are the ones that get screwed.
.... But if that "scrub" fires first, you should die. Just saying, logic.
Trust but Verify.  
 
Level 10 All classes. (About time!) Now I need scrap. All the scrap.  
 
Stop whining. Start winning.  
 
I like and use JD because reasons. Also I happen to look like the lad.
TC Octus wrote:
We recently fixed a couple of bugs in Gears of War 4 that caused inconsistencies in our Kill Trading system.  
 
Kill trades happen when both users land a killing blow on their local console (client) which tells the server they have killed the enemy. Once the first client's killing shot is received by the server, it waits for 250ms to make sure the other user did not also land a killing blow at the same time (accounting for network latency). This system exists to make sure the user with the best ping isn't the automatic winner.  
 
Since we released this bug fix, we have been listening to the community response and have shortened our window for this system drastically in Ranked Modes.  
 
We're looking for feedback in this thread about how often Kill Trades seem to occur with this new shortened window, as well as how the game 'feels' overall with regards to when you do and do not trade.  
 
Thanks for your valuable feedback!  
 
TC
So if two players had a ping difference of under < 250 ms, then kill trade should occur. 
Otherwise a ping range difference of over, higher than > 250 ms would mean the lowest ping would win?  
Is this what is trying to be summarised, or am I wrong?
"I know. You need time."
Honestly, people whinging about having low ping and getting trades off of people with slightly higher ping need to grow up. If you have a ping of 30 and are trading with someone over 100, sure, get angry. But getting angry about trading with someone with 60 ping. Really? Grow up. You people are so entitled, saying “they should go out and buy better internet.” Not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to afford $120-150 a month for premium internet. And some people live in parts of the world that don’t have great internet access. Should these people just stop gaming altogether because they have 70 ping and won’t ever kill someone with better ping? This game is dead enough without more people quitting the game because they have slightly higher ping and can never kill someone with lower ping than them. I too hate trading when I feel like I got the shot off first. But it’s not like TC give the other player 10 seconds to go for the trade. It’s 250ms. Get over it
You know it. Think about how fast a blink of an eye is. About 350 Ms. People are losing their minds over less than tenth of a second at times. Here is an experiment, (theoretical) have two machines with mechanical firing mechanisms setup each with a pistol grip pump shotgun 10' apart. Program each to fire at almost the exact same time, lets say 250 Ms apart and tell me what happens.  
 
Spoiler.... They both fire and connect, destroying the other.
Trust but Verify.  
 
Level 10 All classes. (About time!) Now I need scrap. All the scrap.  
 
Stop whining. Start winning.  
 
I like and use JD because reasons. Also I happen to look like the lad.
Having better internet doesn’t mean you should automatically be the winner guys, sorry. We’ll see later if the window decrease makes the trades happen a little less so it’s not totally obnoxious. If so then it’s fine like that. My opinion.
Having better internet doesn’t mean you should automatically be the winner guys, sorry.
Look, I'm sick tired of wifi gears-god playing on neighbor's router while downloading torrents with ping going constantly up-down 50-500... Those guys are being rewarded by this game, hit detection on them just doesn't work. They are so motivated to wreck lobbies because they climbing ranks so fast, they're used to their crappy connection so you need to pay extra attention which one is bullet eating sponger. They run into you directly with gnasher and even full clip of active Lancer can't stop then simply because they are not on the screen where the game shows it. That's pretty much summed situation of game (matchmaking) flaw abuse. So in this game better connection doesn't automatically make you winner but rather loser per default. Completely insane logic. 
 
IMO, nothing above 150ms should be allowed to join ANY Ranked lobby. 
And this quarter second trading window still favors high ping players, for the most it's unplayable. Now there's insane amount of death/kills that not even happened. It's fairly ok for KOTH, Escalation or even TDM (illustration: I used to have sth like 9-1 now it's more 17-11) but Execution or Dodgeball - fully unplayable! 
 
TC should test it first with esports teams from us and eu, public matches online. If they can't play so probably no one can.
Aye aye go make me a sandwich..
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